Someone had put Blancpain 50 Fathoms Milspec 1 on with
the Hefty Price Tag attached. Even if I had THAT Purchasing Power, I doubt
I would have paid that much… OK, it is a limited issue military
Blancpain. I assume by sn# you can trace it to some military top gun,
and, correspondingly to some military operation. However mechanism does not have
that many complications! Wondering how much will it fetch at the
Enjoy your week-end!
I WROTE THE VENDER. WE BELIEVE IT IS NOT 1950, NOR MILITARY.
THE US GOV OFFERED A CONTRACT TO WATCH MAKERS TO BUILD FIRST AUTOMATIC US NAVY DIVE WATCH
BULOVA WON THE CONTRACT
BULOVA SUCCESSFULLY DESIGNS IMPLEMENTS A PROTOTYPE THAT PASSES TO 300 FEET
WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY IN HAND, BULOVA DECIDES TO NOT RE-UP THE CONTRACT WHEN CHANGES ARE MADE .
BULOVA BEGINS PRODUCTION OF DIVE WATCHES [666 333 ETC] FOR CIVILIAN SALES.
ABOVE OPENS IN OWN WINDOW SO YOU MAY CONTINUE READING
NOTE THE YEAR AT TOP RIGHT OF SPECS, NOTE THE ADDITION OF A MOISTURE INDICATOR ABOVE 6 POSITION, NOTE ALL DETAILS OF DIAL
BLANCPAIN SUBMITS FOR CONTRACT AND TAKES OVER 1960/61
(IN COULD HAVE BEEN 1958/1959)
THE WATCH HE IS SELLING IS A DEAD RINGER FOR THE FIRST CIVILIAN MODEL THAT WAS CREATED USING TECHNOLOGY FIRST DESIGNED–INCLUDING CHEMICAL COMPOSITION
OF CIRCLE MOISTURE INDICATOR– BY THE US NAVY .
ADDITIONALLY, THE Milspec 1 on dial? That WOULD correspond to the first contract spec proposal FOR THE MILITARY VERSION by the USA NAVY.
YOU DID CLICK THE LINK ABOVE AND READ THE DATE?
THE U.S. NAVY VERSION DID NOT AND WOULD NOT HAVE “FIFTY FATHOMS ” EITHER ON THEIR WATCHES AND I WOULD ASSUME THEY ALL HAD THEIR CASE BACKS SIGNED AND IMPRINTED WITH SERIALS ET AL. I BELIEVE THERE WERE 10,000 UNITS.
the military version would have U.S. on dial as shown in specs, – though documents could arise that have something i have not seen…
so, it is a nice find, it would technically be a copy of the MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS AS OUTLINED IN DOC ABOVE.
So it cannot be 1950’s……. AND THE Moisture Indicator IS EXACT AS THE DOC.
THE US GOV RELEASES THEIR SPECS AND THEN BIDS ARE MADE
IN THIS CASE IT IS POSSIBLE THAT US NAVY USED MOISTURE INDICATOR
BASED ON A BLANCPAIN DESIGN, YET NO DOCS HAVE SURFACED.
ABOVE LINK OPENS IN OWN WINDOW SO YOU MAY CONTINUE HERE..
i noticed moisture ring is NEAR one color
that means case was breached; got wet..
value IN MY OPINION could by $9k
i do not believe it is worth 30k.
BUT IT IS MARKET PRICED SO WHO CAN SAY
but who knows, it is original and awesome.
i cannot see how one could fix the moisture ring
i believe 10,000 units of the US NAVY version were released.
IF IT WERE MILITARY a premium would be added.
i have not seen nor acquired any info that says “milspec 1? was a US issue
RATHER Milspec 1 SEEMS TO BE IN HONOR OF THE FIRST U.S.NAVY VERSION.
i also do not know if case back was imprinted like all mil watches,
but would say i cannot believe they were not
ps: you are about to become educated in us mil dive watches!.
“PLACED BY TIMEFRAUD.COM
Blancpain recognized that it needed a way to distinguish its military Fifty Fathom production from its civilian production, and the particular problem it had in mind was the use of radioactive coatings. To mark civilian watches, that of course used no radioactive products of any kind, Blancpain seized on the idea of a special dial legend. Using the universal symbol for radioactivity, the three semi-triangles arrayed around a circle, Blancpain indicated the absence of such products by using the red strike through the symbol and placed this legend in a prominent place, above 6 o’clock, on the dial”
THIS VINTAGE Fifty Fathoms BELOW HAS THE CORRECT anti-radiation dial marking
IN ADDITION, NOTE THE MARKERS ARE WHIT, AND NOT
AGED BROWN YELLOW OR ORANGE TINTED OR COLORED
LIKE OLD TRITIUM AND RADIUM DIALS.
SWISS MADE T< mc.
AT DIAL BOTTOM
BLANCPAIN watch dial ( No Radiations )
with Date window ( Old fifty fathoms )
“THE NOTE COLOR IS BRIGHT YELLOW ” HAS NOTING TO DO WITH THIS DIAL BEING RIGHT OR WRONG. THE STATEMENT WAS TO IDENTIFY THE COLORS AND MARKS BUT WAS CUT OFF WHEN CROPPING.
THE DIAL ABOVE SEEMS GENUINE BUT IT SHOWS RAISED TRITIUM MARKERS THAT HAVE AGED AND IT IS MARKED AS TRITIUM AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL THAT WAS UTILIZED . IT IS MARKED AS A TRITIUM DIAL WITH DIAL INDICATORS LOOKING LIKE AGED RADIATED INDICES.
THE SELLER WANTS US TO BELIEVE THIS WATCH DIAL IS A GENUINE NO RADIATIONS DIAL WITH THE TRITIUM “T < 25MC ” RADIATION DETAILS TO THE RIGHT OF THE SWISS MADE SIGNATURE DENOTING TRITIUM ON THE DIAL
IN FACT, THE ABOVE DIAL HAS THE HIGHEST RADIATION SYMBOL WARNING UTILIZED IN THE PERIOD
“T <25 mc .
SWISS = Radium. SWISS T < 25 = Tritium less than 25 mC. T SWISS T = Tritium less than 7.5mC …
Tritium was used from the 1960s until the late 1990s. Also being radio-active, but more mildly so (beta waves). The half-life mentioned above is of approx. 12,3 years. After that, Tritium (in most cases) will not glow anymore.
There were two degrees of Tritium employed at the time:
a) the dials emitting radio-activity of less than 25 mC. Dials were often marked “SWISS T < 25”
b) the dial emitting radio-activity of less than 7,5 mC. Dials often marked “T SWISS T”.
WE WROTE THE SELLER
EXPLAINED THE DIAL WAS RADIATED
WILL SEE IF THEY STILL OFFER IT FOR 999.00
REPLY BY VENDER
You are wrong about the blancpain no radiation dial .
ANSWERED BY TIMEFRAUD.COM
OK. WE ARE NOT ABSOLUTE EXPERTS NOR KNOW IT ALLS. WE ENCOURAGE PARTICIPATION. WE DO NOT WANT TO HARM ANYONE. BUT. YOUR DIAL HAS “NO RADIATIONS” YET THE DIAL HAS “SWISS MADE < T 25 MU ” ON BOTTOM. IF IT IS ORIGINAL. THAT WOULD MEAN THE DIAL HAS TRITIUM RADIATION.
Tritium, symbol T or 3H, also known as hydrogen-3, is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen. IT HAS A 12.5 YEARS DECAY HALF LIFE
WHY WOULD BLANCPAIN PLACE A SYMBOL WITH “NO RADIATIONS” YET HAVE TRITIUM RADIATION INDICES/MARKERS/HANDS.
NOW, THERE IS ANOTHER FULL COMPLETE BLANCPAIN FIFTY FATHOMS. IT ALSO HAS THE NO RADIATIONS SYMBOL AND WRITING.
THE DIAL, UNLIKE YOURS, HAS “SWISS MADE” AND NO TRITIUM MARKERS [ < T 25 MU ]. N
NOW, YOUR DIAL DOES HAVE WHAT LOOKS LIKE RAISED A NAME “FIFTY FATHOMS” ET AL. SO WE FEEL IT IS GENUINE BUT THAT IT WAS RESTORED AT SOME TIME AND THE NO RADIATIONS ADDED? THAT CAN ONLY BE THE EXPLANATION. PLEASE LET US KNOW.
A RESPONSE TO THE VENDER BY GSW WHO SENT THIS TO ME:
THE 30K WATCH IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. EXCEPT POSSIBLY THE DATING. IT IS A MILSPEC 1. THE ONLY DISAGREEMENT IS ON THE DATE OF PRODUCTION. I BELIEVE THAT JEFF HAS THAT WRITTEN UP. HE STATES THAT HE BELIEVES/IN HIS OPINION
BASED ON US DOCUMENTS AND OTHER FACTORS LIKE TIME ZONE PICS, IT IS CORRECT EXCEPT IT IS NOT AN EARLY 1950’S VERSION.
SECOND, THE ONLINE NO RADIATIONS WATCH THAT IS COMPLETE, WITH DIAL LIKE YOURS, HAS SWISS MADE AT BOTTOM AND NOT “SWISS MADE < T 25mc” WHICH DENOTES TRITIUM RADIATED DIAL. THOUGH DIAL MAY HAVE BEEN RESTORED, IT SEEMS TO BE CORRECT.
PICTURES IN THE TIMEZONE ARTICLE AND OTHER PUBLICATION HAVE WATCHES WITH DIALS FROM ’53 TO 2007 AND EARLY NON RADIATION DIALS DID NOT HAVE THE RADIATION REQUIRED <T 25mc MARKING AT BOTTOM OF DIAL NEXT TO SWISS MADE.
WITH ALL THE FAKE WATCHES, PARTS, INFO ON THE DIAL SIMPLY JUMPED OUT AS ODD AT THE LEAST.
SEND JEFF THAT PROOF. AT WATCHME@TIMEFRAUD.COM, I AM SURE THAT HE DOES NOT KNOW YOU AND ONLY WRITES THE FACTS AS HE SEES THEM. I KNOW IF YOU CAN SHOW OR EXPLAIN HOW A RADIATION MARKING IS ON A DIAL WITH NO RADIATIONS IT WOULD
HELP EVERY ONE. THE WATCH DIAL HAS RAISED BLANCPAIN FIFTY FATHOMS ON IS, TO ME IT IS A FIFTY FATHOMS DIAL, BUT THE NON RADIATIONS WITH RADIATION WARNING , BOTH ON SAME DIAL, MAKES IT A TRITIUM IRRADIATED DIAL…
NO? WOULD BLANCPAIN ISSUE A WATCH INFORMING THE WORLD IT IS TRITIUM IRRADIATED WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF RADIATION 25mc AND THEN ADD A NON RADIATION SYMBOL??
THAT IS THE ONLY QUESTION YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN, NOT TO ME BUT TO YOUR INVESTORS. I AM SURE JEFF WOULD PUBLISH YOUR/ANYONE’S FACTS AND REMOVE ANY CONCLUSIONS THAT COUNTER THOSE FACTS.
SEE WHAT HE IS SAYING?
REAL DEAL BLANCPAIN FIFTY FATHOMS
BUILT TO US NAVY SPECIFICATIONS
<NOTE IT IS UP-IN-THE-AIR US NAVY SPECS OR BLANCPAIN SPECS?>
BUT NOT US NAVY MILITARY
1950’s Original Vintage BLANCPAIN
Fifty Fathoms Milspec 1 Automatic Dive Watch
“This watch has a very distinctive look, the Fifty Fathoms were first made around 1953 for the French Army Frogmen commandos and it’s one of the most collectible military piece as well as the rarest BLANCPAIN you can find!”
NOTE : THE DATING AND THE COUNTRY ARE WAY OFF. THE FIFTY FATHOMS WAS THE CIVILIAN VERSION OF THE TORNEK-RAYVILLE US NAVY DIVE WATCH/ DEVELOPED BY BULOVA AND THEN IMPROVED UPON BY US NAVY SPECS BY BLANCPAIN. THOUGH THERE WERE SERIOUS MILITARY DIVERS DEEP SEA WATCHES SINCE THE 1930’S, LIKE THE U.S. CANTEEN, THEY WERE MOSTLY MECHANICAL WIND VERSIONS, NOT AUTOMATICS. AS FAR AS AUTOMATICS, ROLEX HELD A PATENT FOR THE 360 DEGREES ROTOR SYSTEM UNTIL APP: 1950 WHEN THE SWISS INTRODUCED A FULL ROTOR MOVEMENT. THE BIDYNATOR WAS THE AUTOMATIC THAT WAS UTILIZED BY NEARLY EVERY TOP LINE MAKER.
TR-900 U.S. NAVY DIVER
THIS IS A CASE BACK WITH MIL-W-22176 SERIAL
AN ACTUAL NAVY DIVERS BLANCPAIN
OPENS IN NEW WINDOW
NOTE DATE TOP RIGHT
NOTE INDICATOR AT BOTTOM
OPENS IN NEW WINDOW
NOTE CASE BACK
WHICH WAS IN REGARDS TO THE FIRST
US NAVY CONTRACT SPECIFICATIONS
BUT IS NOT A NAVY DIVER BLANCPAIN
NOTE THE LOOK
NOTE RADIUM RAISED MARKER
NOT THE DIAL INDICATOR
[AGE OR MOISTURE HAS TURNED THE WHITE HALF PEACH COLOR)
THE DIVE BEZEL AND MARKINGS ARE CORRECT
THEY ARE AGED CORRECTLY
THE MOISTURE INDICATOR IS TWO COLORS
WITH SOME INDICATION OF MOISTER
THE TOP MARKER WITH RADIUM IS CORRECT
THE ABOVE IS CORRECT
THOUGH THE MILSPEC 1 LOOKS REPAIRED
IT IS MIRRORED ON THE REVERSE ON CASE BACK
BLANCPAIN RAYVILLE S.A.
DATED GENUINE BLANCPAIN DIVE WATCHES.
BELOW ARE PICTURES OF ALLEGED GENUINE BLANCPAIN DIVE WATCHES. NOTE WE FIND SOME WATCHES WITH THE MILITARY SPECIFICATION MOISTURE
INDICATOR AS EARLY AS 1953. I FIND THAT FACT SOME WHAT STRANGE, SO I WILL STICK TO WHAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY DETERMINED. THE OTHER ITEM IS THE FRENCH MILITARY BLANCPAIN BEING THE SEED FOR THE FF BLANCPAIN. ONLY ONE BLANCPAIN HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS FRENCH MILITARY AND THAT WAS FOR FRENCH DIVERS SCHOOL, AND THE DATE AND STYLE ARE MORE 1956 TP 1958.!
French military diving school model.1953-1955
OUR DATING IS 1956
BLANKPAIN AND FRENCH NAVY
ON THE BLANCPAIN WEBSITE, BLANCPAIN DELIVERS A MESSAGE THAT IT WAS THE FRENCH WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FIFTY FATHOMS AND THAT THE US ORDERED SOME/ THEY DO NOT GO INTO ANY DETAIL AND MAKE IT SEEM AS IF US NAVY SIMPLY ORDERED THE BLANCPAIN.
FIFTY FATHOMS EQUAL 300 FEET THE US NAVY HAD ALREADY REACHED 333 FEET WITH BULOVA’S AUTOMATIC PROTOTYPE. BY THE TIME BLANCPAIN SIGNED ON USN HAD OPTED FOR A NEW DESIGN IN THEIR MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS 1= 400 FEET.
ALSO, CONTRARY TO THE AWESOME BUT LACKING TIMEZONE BLANCPAIN HISTORY, TIME ZONE STATES THAT THE ONLY MAJOR ITEM THAT THE US NAVY REQUIRED WAS THE ILLUMINATION FOR THE DIAL AND OTHER ILLUMINATED PARTS.
” delivered the watches to the US military under two names, “Blancpain Tornek” and “Rayville Tornek-– “Like many of the military watches, the Tornek series complied with particular military specifications. Indeed, the Tornek series watches bear the label “MIL-SPEC 1” on the dial. One element commonly found in the military specifications dealt with the luminosity of the dial and bezel markings. In the US case, as in the case of many other military units, it was required that the Fifty Fathoms use radioactive material, such as Promethium 147, so that the indications would “glow” in the night conditions envisioned for many dives. These MILSPEC materials were fearsome, even by the rather casual standards of the day that applied to radioactive elements. The cases bore an inscription reading “DANGER. IF FOUND RETURN TO NEAREST MILITARY FACILITY “
THE ABOVE STORY LINE LEADS ONE TO BELIEVE THE ILLUMINATION WAS “FIERCE” AND, THUS, “DANGEROUS”, AND THAT THE WATCHES HAD TO BE BURIED, DISPOSED OF. ET AL.. THE FACT IS, BY THE TIME THE FF BLANCPAIN REACHED CIVILIAN USAGE, RADIUM WAS THE FEAR. STORIES OF CANCER OF THE MOUTH, HEAD, NECK. AND TERRIBLE FACTS THAT WERE COMPILED OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS MADE THE PUBLIC FEAR WATCHES THAT GLOWED. THAT IS WHY THE WORDS “NO RADIATIONS” WAS USED ON SO MANY LATER BLANCPAIN FIFTY FATHOMS. THINK ABOUT IT. THIS UGLY YELLOW OR GREEN CIRCLE WITH “NO RADIATIONS” WRITTEN ON IT.
OPENS IN NEW WINDOW
MILSPEC US NAVY 1960
OK, WHEN IT COMES TO HISTORY, EVEN BLANCPAIN CAN MAKE CHANGES IF NO ONE IS WISER. THEN WE DISCOVER THE AUTHORITATIVE PUBLICATIONS PICK THIS UP AND IT BECOMES HISTORY. BUT THEN, FROM ANOTHER SOURCE WE DISCOVER THAT OOPS, THERE ARE REVISIONS.. AND FROM TIMEZONE AT THAT. ONE ARTICLE STATES THE ABOVE WERE US NAVY WATCHES. YET WE NO THAT THE TR-900 WAS THE U.S. NAVY DIVERS WATCH. FURTHER THAT THE INDICES WERE :
“BLANCPAIN AND THE US NAVY”
“To counter this threat the Navy retrained their divers as Explosive Ordnance Disposal Units concentrating on keeping harbors and waterways clear and free for US Navy and allied vessels. But, with the rise in new technology mines, utilizing multiple fuses, operated by pressure, time, contact or magnetic influence it was obvious that the Navy needed new equipment and amongst that equipment there was a requirement for a new diver’s watch.
The naval specification MIL-W-2217.6A(SHIPS) called for a watch capable of operating at depths of up to 400 ft, with an accuracy of at least 30 seconds a day and also to have absolutely no magnetic signature at all. Under the ‘Buy American Act’ the specification went to all of the major US watch companies; Elgin, Bulova, Hamilton and Waltham. However, as the initial request was for only 1,000 watches, none of them thought that the contract could be fulfilled profitably and that the challenges involved in the construction and testing were too demanding. However there was one American company who thought that they had a chance, Allen Tornek was the US importer for the Rayville Watch Company, of Villeret, Switzerland who made watches under the Blancpain name and also watches for department stores and other retail jewelers which did not have their own manufacturing facilities. Tornek & Rayville were interested for a couple of reasons; to both of them an order of 1,000 watches was a substantial one and they had a head start over the other companies in that Rayville were already manufacturing a diver’s watch in the Blancpain ‘Fifty Fathoms’.
But the requirement to make the watch completely aNTIMAgnetic (an anti magnetic watch is one where the movement is protected from outside magnetic influences, whilst an ANTImagnetic watch is one that has no parts in it that can be influenced by magnetism) was the major challenge. This required that special steel for the case be imported from Sweden; this steel had a completely different composition to the normal stainless steel used for watch cases and the compromise that this entailed was the steel was nowhere near as corrosion resistant.
Sourcing the special steel used was a minor problem compared to making the internals of the watch antiMagnetic, this involved making the escapement from hardened brass rather than steel; the balance spring also could not have been made from steel, but I have not yet been able to discover what material was used in its place.
It took almost 2 years from the initial inquiry before the Navy got their first watches, and when they did they went initially to the EODU guys and afterwards to other naval divers. The watch they received was quite different from the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. Firstly, it did not bear the name ‘Blancpain’ anywhere on the watch, the entire watch case was finished with a grained matt surface making it completely reflection proof and the dial luminous was neither Radium nor Tritium, rather it used Promethium 147. Promethium has several advantages over both the other commonly used isotopes; it emits many more particles than either of them, meaning the luminous indices would glow brighter and longer, both underwater and at night. However the downside to this was that its half-life is only 2.5 years, unlike Tritium, which has a 12.4-year half-life, and Radium whose half-life is measured in centuries. Obviously this short half-life would have been unacceptable in a civilian watch, but the Navy had different requirements.
The initial order was for 780 watches (at $187.50 each) and the last of them were delivered in June 1965, a few months later another order for slightly fewer than 300 was received but that was it for the Navy. Two years later Mr. Tornek approached the Navy asking if they needed any more watches, but as the Vietnam conflict was at its height, the Navy had other things on their mind and told him that they didn’t think that they would need any more. So the special production line was dismantled, and the external suppliers (dial and steel companies) were told that their services were no longer needed. But, if you will remember, I mentioned that Promethium 147 had a half-life of only 2.5 years; this meant that only five years after the first watches were made they would now be down to 25% of their initial luminous output. But when the Navy approached Tornek about obtaining replacement dials, they were told that there were no more and that there was no chance of getting any more. So, as the dials became dimmer and the watches became less useful they were returned to the naval stores. However, once they got into the stores they were doomed, because the rear of each case had been stamped “DANGER Radioactive Material” and a large radioactive symbol. Under naval rules, they were sent back to the Atomic Energy Commission in the US, where they were disposed of as low-level atomic waste. They were placed in containers with other low-level waste (uniforms, badges, pipework etc) and the containers were filled with concrete and then buried deep underground at sites in deserted areas of the US. The watches were very low production items to begin with (just over 1,000 units made) and many must have been lost by divers whilst being used and most of the rest were destroyed by the Government. This means that the Tornek Rayville TR-900 may well be one of the rarest of all military watches; current research believes that there to be only about 20 known examples extant. This makes the watch shown here extra special as it remained at Rayville for 40 years and never went either to Tornek or to the US Navy and so shows the finish that these watches had when new.
LINK OPENS IN NEW WINDOW
65-70 65 GERMAN MILITARY
70 LIP 99